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Thread: Vger and the Borg

  1. #1
    Registered User Artay's Avatar
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    Default Vger and the Borg

    So, I'm watching Star Trek: The Motion Picture the other night and - spoiler alert in case you haven't seen it - they say that Vger became Vger after landing on a machine planet that built it a ship and sent it home. That machine planet? BORG.

    Though not directly addressed as such, there is some pretty good evidence that the machine planet that Voyager 6 encountered was, in fact, Borg in nature. We never see the planet in the movie (unless it's one of the models floating around the interior), but we do see Vger and the ship carrying it back to Earth.

    My evidence?

    First, we'll examine Vger's weaponry. Here's the clip from the beginning of the movie where Vger blasts itself some Klingons:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-rOKH3367E

    Skip ahead to 1:45 if you're impatient. Seem familiar? I tried to find a video that simply showed the plasma bolt being fired by a unimatrix in STO, but the internet is being uncooperative. You'll just have to do a Red Alert mission to see.

    Secondly, however, is the ship carrying Vger itself. For most of the movie, all you can see of Vger is the nebulous cloud of energy surrounding it and some parts of the ship itself at so close a range as to be unidentifiable. That changes, however, once Vger reaches Earth and sheds the energy cloud. Then we can see that Vger looks like this:

    vger.jpg

    What does that look like to you??

    unimatrix.jpg

    TOTALLY Borg. Vger ran into the Borg, they refit the machine and sent it back to Earth.

    We're just lucky that Vger developed self-awareness. Otherwise, it'd been a lot less about meeting the creator and a whole lot more "resistance is futile". If not for Vger's self-awareness existential crisis, Earth could have been a Borg planet before good ol' Jean-Luc was in diapers.

    Talk about dodging a bullet. LoL
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  2. #2

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    Star Trek Legacy spinned the story so that V'Ger was the source of the Borg:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaKI9hm3jVA

    In William Shattner's Books where he brings Kirk back to life after Generations he alos went for a V'Ger Borg connection.

    In the Countdown or Nero Comic's (not sure) for Star Trek XI the Narada had contact with V'Ger,
    there some text line that the Narada saw V'Ger as a familiar spirit / mind (note, after the comics the Narada was upgraded with Borg technology in "The Vault", yes that exact Vault we have in STO)

    http://images.wikia.com/startrek/ima...a_and_VGer.jpg

  3. #3

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    Cryptic copied that weapon system and ship into STO because of the Legacy connection.

    Spock also doesn't get assimilated in Shatner's books because he mind melded with Nomad, also a Borg probe.

    STERILIZE!!!!
    Last edited by Thlaylie; 08-11-2012 at 08:38 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User Artay's Avatar
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    I read shortly after I wrote this post that others had come to the same conclusion. LoL At least I'm not alone. I'm gonna haveta watch more of those extras, that was pretty slick.
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    Registered User The Most Interesting Man's Avatar
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    In all honesty, Vger, though suggestively implied that it originated from a race that comprised of machines - does not necessarily mean it was Borg in nature.

    It was just a jester or a joke of a suggestion from someone involved in the Star Trek TV series. This of course is due to the fact that the concept of the "Borg" did not exist in the 70's, in which the motion picture was made. Its obvious that STO adopted the look of Vger and incorporated it into a Borg Boss design. This of course can be argued in many ways - even the purist, ala Defenders of Star Trek canon are at odds in regards to VGer and the Borg.

    SIDE NOTE: To be honest I love the Borg in the TNG "Best of both worlds" saga - I despise the First Contact Version of the Borg, though the big budget makeup was awesome. The Borg in the First Contact Movie lost its mystique and appeal once they introduced a Queen in the mix. I liked them better in the TNG series where they were just one collective mind ---> They were creepier, foreboding, and much more interesting.
    Last edited by The Most Interesting Man; 08-16-2012 at 01:19 AM.

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    Commander @Thorley's Avatar
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    I would postulate that the machine planet was just that (only machine)
    once decker joined with vger. he created the first borg cyborg and the race to assimilate then began back in the delta quadrant.

    "birth of a new race" ironic that humans would create a race capable of wiping out all other life in the galaxy.

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    Crewman Jarnin's Avatar
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    <--- Not a fan of the V'ger / Borg connection. The galaxy is a big place and putting these two together just seems like the writers trying really hard to tie things together that didn't need it.

  8. #8
    Registered User Def Munky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
    <--- Not a fan of the V'ger / Borg connection. The galaxy is a big place and putting these two together just seems like the writers trying really hard to tie things together that didn't need it.
    Yeah, with an almost infinite amount of space and possibilities in the universe, it would be pretty limiting to assume their is only one race like the Borg. There could be entire android/robotic cultures somewhere, other cyborg races, some which aren't interested in assimilating every lifeform they find interesting, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorley View Post
    I would postulate that the machine planet was just that (only machine)
    once decker joined with vger. he created the first borg cyborg and the race to assimilate then began back in the delta quadrant.

    "birth of a new race" ironic that humans would create a race capable of wiping out all other life in the galaxy.
    Ironic considering the true origin of the Borg according to the Destiny Novels

    [spoiler] The first 3 Borg were MACO officers from The NX-02 Columbia. [/spoiler]

    We don't have spoiler tags installed? *Facepalm*

  10. #10
    Registered User Artay's Avatar
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    It doesn't really sound like there is any one true origin story to the Borg, depending on what is 'canon' and not. There are so many adaptations out there that in order for them all to be true you have to look at it almost from the perspective of the Q looking down on a multiverse.

    See, I'm not opposed to the V'ger/Borg connection because it kind of draws the universe together with strings of fate that can take centuries to reach fruition. The universe is vast, but when you become an interstellar species it becomes much smaller. It wouldn't surprise me to have unknowingly brushed elbows some of our intelligent neighbors without our discovering the consequences for years to come.

    I'll have to read/watch more of these origin stories to get a better feel for it.
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